Refill with Reka | A place where Moms Thrive

Maternal Health, Parenting & Puberty w/ Tiffany and Whitney of Raising Resilience

• Reka Leftridge

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When Tiffany candidly opened up about her journey into motherhood, it struck a chord with so many of us who've navigated the same complex path. Alongside Whitney, her partner at Raising Resilience, they illuminate the often shadowed corners of maternal mental health and self-care in our latest Martini Mamas discussion. These two powerhouses, well-versed in the struggles and triumphs of parenting, bring to the table a conversation that's both uplifting and grounded in reality, particularly for African American mothers.

Settle in as Tiffany and Whitney take us back to their grad school days, where their bond over a shared mission was forged within the halls of North Carolina A&T. Fast forward, and their vision has blossomed into a beacon of hope for new mothers facing the challenges of perinatal mental health. Their stories, stitched with warmth and determination, reveal how they've turned personal insights and the confusion of COVID-19 into a thriving venture that champions early mental health awareness and support for mothers in need.

We wrap up with a heart-to-heart on the pivotal topics of reproductive health education and navigating the often turbulent waters of puberty and parenting. These conversations are a treasure trove of strategies and understanding for all families, providing a guide to fostering resilience in the face of infertility and loss. It's a tribute to the strength within every mom and a reminder that, through empathy and education, we can empower the next generation with the care and knowledge they richly deserve.

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Speaker 1:

What's better than a regular happy hour? How about an ultimate happy hour for moms? Martini Mamas podcast is a weekly hangout for modern mamas to discuss mamahood, work-life balance, blended families and self-care. So whether you're looking for advice, community or a new bestie, you are in the right place. Cheers.

Speaker 2:

Hey guys, welcome back to the Martini Mamas podcast. It's your girl, Rika, and y'all when I tell y'all I have a phenomenal and I got to say yes, because this is the first time that I had two ladies come on and join us.

Speaker 2:

Look, with me being mental health mom, I thought that it would be really important for us to start this conversation off with family talk and making sure that, holistically, the families are doing well. So I want to bring on Tiffany and Whitney. They joined us today. They are the co-founders of Raising Resilience. It is a maternal mental health wellness business committed to supporting families and individuals, and their focus is the Black community. As perinatal mental health therapists, they provide compassionate support to couples in vulnerable times, addressing a lot of issues that I don't think that we're really having conversations about but we need to, and that's navigating parenting, infertility and loss, along with birth trauma. They have really dedicated their business and their mission to fostering resilience and the well-being of just not their clients, but couples alike. We're going to get them all in. Let them give a little bit background about themselves. But also, y'all know we got to do this.

Speaker 3:

Mom vibe check hey ladies, hey, how are you? I am so good.

Speaker 2:

Now y'all, this is the first time I told y'all that I've done like two people at the same time, so this is going to be real good. This is going to be real good. Tiffany, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I am a mama to myself and that is really. My journey into motherhood transitioned me into this space of perinatal mental health and really focusing my work on moms and couples to help them navigate this. My journey has allowed me to really be able to emphasize caring for myself and making sure that I am well. Therefore, I can be well to the other people in my family. I have a three-year-old sweet little baby boy named DJ. He is just such a joy. And then I have a about to be seven year old. She makes sure that I got to tell him she, she is about to be seven. Ok, she, not she. She getting out of the sixes, she about to be seven. Sweet, smartest, sassiest seven year old there is. And I mean they just, they give me a run for my money, but I enjoy every minute of it.

Speaker 2:

Well, let me tell you I got a three going on 33. So, girl, I feel you, I feel like these new age toddlers are different. That's why I had to have y'all on selfishly for myself. I need help. Okay, whitney, get in here and tell us about yourself.

Speaker 4:

I'm Whitney, so I am like you introduced us. I'm a licensed mental health therapist, so I don't have children myself yet, but I have played a vital role in my God children's life my oldest God son, zakai he is 18 and living his life. And my God daughter Kennedy. She is 16 and she is driving and dating and she's just so smart and like watching her grow from a baby to now I was there for both of their births. So watching them like grow up and be like semi-adults is kind of like it makes me uncomfortable.

Speaker 4:

And then I have my last goddaughter, who she is teaching me the realness of parenting and navigating that and what that's like and why I can wait a little bit longer to have some kids. So she's teaching me the true values of like why motherhood and fatherhood is important and vital in our communities, but why also is important for parents to have self-care and be important. Yeah, like I came into this space with Tiffany and I do feel like it's also important for women to know that your maternal mental health starts even before you have children, because there are some vital tools and things that are important to know no matter where you're at in the journey. So that's just my passion and presence of being in this space and understanding what it's like to navigate the world as a woman, but not only. It's like how instrumental we are in our children's lives.

Speaker 2:

Well, welcome on in Like girl. We invite you to the tribe, honey, because no matter if they got children or what aunties and the like, they still try your patience and your heart at the same time. Oh, my goodness, but I really want. I'm not going to dig in deep right now because we got to get in this mom vibe check, but I love the fact that you said about women prioritizing self-care but, more importantly, the journey of motherhood begins way before you're even pregnant and I think that is a must needed conversation, because there are a lot of women in that I know personally that are trying to have kids, and I think there's a conversation to be had for like friends as well, about the words that we speak to those friends who are trying right, Who've had kids. And you know and I'll get into that a little while later, but I'm so interested in that conversation, so let's get on into this mom vibe check. Are y'all ready?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean we're ready.

Speaker 2:

We're ready. Ok, Tiffany, did you watch the Cosby Show?

Speaker 3:

Yes, Growing up I did watch the Cosby Show.

Speaker 2:

You did watch the Cosby Show. Which character is most like you? Ok, OK, hold on. Let me watch the Cosby show.

Speaker 3:

Which character is most like you? Okay, okay, hold on, let me think. Let me think which character is most like me. I'm Claire. I'm Elizabeth. Do tell I should say I aspire to be Claire, right.

Speaker 3:

I aspire to be as grounded as Claire, because them kids tore her nerves up, but yet, and still, she always just showed up with grace, she put them in a place, she checked them along the way, uh, but she did it so gracefully and compassionately and even, uh, um, mr Huxtable, well, look, nowadays you don't even know who you want to say.

Speaker 2:

Right, You're like, can I say his name Bill? Can I say Bill?

Speaker 3:

Cosby or not, but did they call him Bill in the conversation?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know, girl. Now here's the next thing. Which friend group could we catch you in? Were you going to be in the living single friend group or girlfriends oh, I was gonna be in the girlfriends friend group.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah, I'm in the girlfriends friend group definitely now.

Speaker 2:

Who would you be there? Are you a Joan?

Speaker 3:

are you a Tony? No, are you a tony? No, not a joan, definitely not when he said he was tony childs, when he just said, you were tony no, I was relating to myself. I would be tony, but yeah I think I might, I feel like I might be um, a little bit of yeah, like a little so, maya, and then a little bit of John, a little bit of Tony a little bit all of them right mixed together.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Lynn was a little bit too free spirited for me.

Speaker 2:

I need structure, she so okay, lynn, who you have, which girlfriend would you be you?

Speaker 4:

Tony Childs period yeah, I would be. I don't know I could be between. I think overall to people that are close to me I'm probably tony, but I think sometimes I can show up like lean.

Speaker 2:

I'm about to say the same thing, but I think about isa ran them I think about Issa Ray and them.

Speaker 4:

I think about Issa and their friend group on Insecure. And so I think about where I would fit in Issa and them Okay.

Speaker 2:

Which one would you be there?

Speaker 4:

I feel like I can get Molly vibes sometimes.

Speaker 2:

You can get a Molly vibe. I was there. You remember they had the lawyer friend on Insecure which was like the one that was always telling them about their money. Kelly, kelly, I'll be her a little, because I'm a little wild like that.

Speaker 4:

But then she was trying to hit you with some realness about life, Like she may say something off the wall and then she'll be like but that's why Like, but then she'll give you some realness at the end about life.

Speaker 2:

I can see that, I can see that. Yeah. So for where you kind of know like, okay, last question, name your favorite candy when you were a kid, or was y'all allowed to eat?

Speaker 3:

candy? Let me find out. I was allowed to eat candy I used to eat. Oh, this is gonna be so weird because a lot of people don't like this candy, but my mom used to eat them all the time, so I just used to sneak it from them.

Speaker 2:

But Swedish fish I do, you don't see your teeth Like oh no, oh, no, what?

Speaker 4:

about you, whitney? Okay, I got like three. Okay, so I found these in Office Depot. Office Depot, if y'all want to sponsor me, raise a resume on this candy Please. It's the Sunkissed Candy, and so they used to come in a five-pack and they're like. So they make different versions but they have the sugar on the outside but they're like gummy. They usually come in like orange slices, but some kids came out with their version, them. I just like the candy cigarette. Sorry, I know that's probably not politically correct, but they were all good. And then the other little candy with the head that come off. It was like Pez oh, I've teared him up. Starburst, like I was, like my mom used to be like you, we gotta cut your candy back. But oh, and I used to like the, the candy canes that was flavored. I would eat them off the tree. Like you cannot keep eating my candy canes off of my tree, um, but yes, and the lifesavers suckers those.

Speaker 2:

so let me just say y'all was scared coming in, but y'all a total vibe. I think we can all vibe with a lot what you don't say. But I love to do that because I think it's just a good icebreaker. It just take people down memory lane and see how people grew up. You really don't know and you can kind of tell the regions of where people are from just by the candy they eat, the foods they eat and all of those things. But let's bring it back on topic. And so I really want to know, like, how did you two meet? Because to get together and co-found not just a business, I mean, y'all are co-founding a mission to be like some game changers in the community. So how did you guys?

Speaker 3:

meet. We went to grad school together. So we went to Auntie, north Carolina, auntie, aggie, pride and Whitney she'd be stuck in the middle because she also a ram. So, yeah, we got our A&T and we met like our first semester there and, you know, had a lot of classes together, did a lot of work together throughout that, our our master's program. And then I'm uh, I'm not originally from Charlotte, but I've been in Charlotte for most of my life. I've been here for a while.

Speaker 3:

So, after graduating from A&T Greensboro, I moved back. I moved to Charlotte, started working at a practice that I was doing my internship with and we were hiring. I was like I got to get Whitney here. I need her to move to Charlotte. She's back in the Greensboro, burlington area. I need her here with me. We need to do this stuff together because we've been in grad school, this whole, like on this whole journey together. So then we started working together at this private practice and we were there for a while, until 2020, when COVID hit. And then around that time we were like all right, we got to get out of this agency setting. We know what we're passionate about, we know what our niche is, we know what we want to do so. We just need to make it happen. Covid was the perfect time. It kind of like pushed us into this because what did you go dribble or you're going to shoot what you're going to do?

Speaker 2:

Whitney, tell me the move. Was it hard to make that decision to move? Because right now we're talking about jumping into something new, starting a business. Covid hit, like all of the things.

Speaker 3:

Give me some of the feelings.

Speaker 2:

She say girl.

Speaker 4:

Okay. So I have a wild story about people probably going to be like Whitney is everything okay. So I literally went for my interview in Charlotte at the practice Tiffany was working for in January, but I didn't start until May and so I was so nervous and I was just at my mom's house Like I don't know where I'm going to stay, I don't know where I'm going to live. How do I move this? It was scary. So I always tell people like, even though I was moving an hour and 45 minutes down the road, I was terrified. Like this is my first time, like really like being on my own. I didn't have anywhere to stay. My best friend was up here and I like moved in with him so I could like get on my feet, but I was terrified. I don't know no place to hold a job for somebody from January to May.

Speaker 2:

but maybe it was my calling, but I think that when those things happen, you know it's God ordained. Because you're like none of this stuff should align, like none of this, like he would have threw that in the trash. Like girl, we already hired for that position, we out of here. And so you guys get together and perinatal because I got to say this. That's like a tongue twister, because we always hear about prenatal right, we know that Postnatal but we never hear about perinatal. Now educate me and the audience on exactly what does that mean?

Speaker 3:

Perinatal is the time period from pregnancy to postpartum. So that's just what it means. It's just a time frame and it encapsulates from the time someone gets pregnant up until they are in their postpartum period, which research shows lasts for about 10 years. But as a lived experience, I'm here to tell you that it just keeps on going.

Speaker 2:

Whitney, tell me how did you say OK, this is the thing that I want to really be an expert in.

Speaker 4:

I think for me it was two personal experiences. My close friend always lets me share this when she had my goddaughter, it was like emotionally rough, like for her being a teen mother and I remember, like her, having some very difficult conversations and I'm still a teenager and she's still a teenager, so we really didn't know how to navigate that and I thought about that. And then, I think also being a new therapist, having clients talk about their pregnancy and postpartum experience and me sitting there being like I've never learned about this, like is there even anyone that looks like us? Where do I refer them? I remember having a client and I did not know where to refer her. I had never worked with anything around postpartum depression. I'm a new therapist. She's looking at me like well, whitney, they said they're going to take my kid if I don't find anyone that specializes in this. And I couldn't find anyone no one that looked like us, no one that I felt comfortable referring her to. So that, right there, led me to like this is a gap and it's something that's going under the radar that impacts everyone, like everyone is impacted by this, whether you're a dad or your aunt, grandmother, friend, family, children.

Speaker 4:

And I do think more when me and Tiffany began to work in the schools and we were working with children and we would do those intake assessments, and some of the parents when we go back because on the intake assessment it would say how was your pregnancy and postpartum experience?

Speaker 4:

And a lot of the parents, we will spend majority of the assessment on that because they would say, oh, we tried this time. We had a miscarriage in 2013. Or, you know, I remember when I had my son, I was completely checked out for the first three months, and then I'm looking at this kid that's struggling, like socially and emotionally, and this parent trying to make up for where they fell. Or that parent saying, you know, like I had my first child at this age and now I'm trying again, and it seems very difficult and new. So I do think, when I kept hearing that and I was like Tiffany, do you hear this? And then Tiffany was a new mom at the time and so we were just trying to figure out where's the help and resources and where are parents going when this happens, like what just happens, like I just didn't know where it was. So that's what brought me into this work and I think, also the information that I've learned before I've even became a mother is so important.

Speaker 2:

Chill about it in motherhood either.

Speaker 4:

That's true.

Speaker 3:

Now I just wanted to add to that too. Right, like we did not learn about this in grad school, right, and the things that when me and Whitney were having a conversation about, like this is a theme, like what is this, it wasn't necessarily people saying like, oh, I have postpartum depression, because that's what we all think we know is postpartum depression, and it was more so. Like I'm just not good at this, like I'm just not a good mother, I just don't know how to take care of these kids. Like I just don't know how to take care of these kids. Like a lot of blaming on the kids. But then when we're in these sessions, like, but maybe, like it's a lot of this like parenting too, it's not just the kids. And so, like Whitney said, I too was a new mom at this point, and because I've been a therapist for this amount of years and I and I thought I knew what postpartum depression was, I knew that it wasn't that. I was like well, I don't feel depressed Like in the things that people say. Right, like the media shows the most intense things that happens to a woman during a postpartum right, like where we see the tragedies of women, like taking their own lives or taking their kids' life. That is what the media paints to be postpartum depression or just complete sadness, crying, can't take care of the baby, darkness, and I wasn't experiencing any of these things. I'm like, well, what the hell is this? Really, what I was experiencing was like this rage, this irritability, just everything pissing me off and ticking me off and not having the patience to like navigate it, and so so Whitney and I are kind of like hearing these themes, I'm experiencing these themes, and so so Whitney and I are kind of like hearing these themes, I'm experiencing these themes, and we're. Another piece of that is we're also like getting a lot of teen pregnancies without anybody like supporting them. So we're like, all right, let's go into this direction.

Speaker 3:

Because we started off as a nonprofit before we became a private practice where we were providing services to families and couples. We were thinking we were going to nonprofit like curating events for moms wanting to really hone a space for Black teenagers who were pregnant, and we went to this training in Chicago hosted by the Postpartum Support International, and sitting in that training was long. It was two days. This light bulb was just going off of not only my own personal experiences and what that was like, but the trends and the themes that I was seeing in the parents of the clients we were seeing because we were only seeing kids at this time, and I was just like Whitney this is what's happening and us, as like skilled therapists, were at this point, because that was we started in 2014,.

Speaker 3:

This is like now 2018. And so it's like, if we didn't know this, who knows this information? Right like this seems like this is some important, vital information to know. It completely shifted trajectory of not only parenthood but these children, their child development and and the way that they show up in school and their extracurricular activities. All the reason why we were getting they they were, um referred to us in the first place, right Like behavior issues, and so it was like if we could fix this piece or work or highlight this piece, then maybe amplifying that would then trickle down into the kids and then their experience is better as well.

Speaker 2:

Let me just say this, and I know a lot was just said there, but y'all hit it right on the nose. It doesn't just stop there. The conversation is not had. I don't care what level of care you do have, right, because I think it's some people out there that may have had the doctor experiences and all of those things, may have had the doctor experiences and all of those things, but when you and I'm speaking from experience I've got four. But even the after effect of having a baby in the military had two miscarriages on active duty and I'm going to be honest those times it was.

Speaker 2:

You get your three day sick on quarters and you go back to work and you are back to the mission but no one is telling you you need to go talk to someone, right? And I think even even those losses my husband felt felt it too, because then it goes to the blame game. And the kids. It's like how do you tell the kids? And you're trying to talk to the kids and you know it's just that it was a bigger conversation to be had, but we don't hear it. We don't even know what to ask for. You get pregnant, you have a miscarriage, then what? Then it's just like, oh, let's start over again. But what's the middle piece In your experience?

Speaker 4:

I think one thing that I learned from a fertility doctor here in Charlotte, dr Johnson, is she talked about the importance of Black women beginning to learn more about our fertility early on. It's kind of like an uncomfortable conversation to talk to a 21 year old with, or even a 15 and 16 year old about their fertility, but a lot of the women that I work with that are experiencing fertility issues. They knew that something was a little bit off early on. One of my clients she always lets me share this, but she was like Whitney.

Speaker 4:

I really remember going to the doctor at 17 and knowing that my periods being not regular, knowing that I had different things going on with my body, she was like I knew an excess overgrowth of hair was not normal and my doctor just telling me well, you don't need to worry about that right now. She was like but what if I want to have a family? And one of the things that I think is the uncomfortable conversation is to talk about fertility, pcos and different reproductive issues that can show up when you begin your cycle and period and understand that we need to have education around how our insurance can pay for you to check your egg cycle, knowing about how to even get pregnant, because, I mean, I'm sorry, but a lot of women we don't even understand how to get pregnant. Like what cycles, like during your menstrual cycle, what it takes, you know, like all of those things, girl, I just learned after this fourth baby.

Speaker 4:

Yes. So those things would be so much helpful because you know we are taught that you just have sex and you get pregnant. It does not work like that, and one of the things that Dr Johnson talked about she was like what she noticed in other races is that they were already coming in mid-20s, late 30s, getting their eggs count tested, testing fertility and like. In our community that looks kind of like taboo. If you don't want any kids, why are you going to get your egg count, you know, tested out, and you're 25 and you don't want any, you know. So in that sense, I think even knowing about fertility, knowing about if you want to freeze your eggs, knowing about your body and your reproductive system, is so important before you are in a situation when you are in your later 30s where you're trying to like override all of these things.

Speaker 4:

I think one of the biggest things is even having the education around our reproductive systems altogether, because a lot of times we don't get information about it until something is wrong, until it's the fibroids, until it's the you know things that are impacting us, versus being more preventative.

Speaker 4:

I feel like Black women we are at such a disadvantage for or even when we ask about it. Sometimes it's not always explored with us in a way and mentally that impacts you, because I've worked with several women that are like I don't know if I can get pregnant and I'm like, what do you mean? And it's like, well, I just don't know. No one's ever talked to me about it. I've always been taught about how not to get pregnant, but never about how to actually get pregnant and what it takes and what that looks like, and mentally this is like a big question mark over your head, like you're not thinking about it until you're in a moment. So I do think having that education around your fertility is very important, even if you don't want, or even if you don't want kids at all. It's very important of knowing about your reproductive health.

Speaker 2:

I'm over here, like right now, thinking of just putting myself in the shoes of that mom, because I do have two daughters. I started out with two boys and now I have two daughters and so I remember, you know, having the sex conversation with the boys, right, because we're always like talking about, you know, the condoms and protective sex and all of that other stuff. But even when you said that with my daughter I think a lot of it is is that we were never taught. So it becomes a generational thing. And because I'm sitting here like man, was I ever taught that Like?

Speaker 2:

no go ahead, I was going to say yes.

Speaker 3:

And I think that goes how you were saying is generational right. Yes, because remember, from like history, black women have been hypersexualized right, and it's like stigmas and myths of like you look at that Black girl over there with that big old booty and this nice plump breast she going to be pregnant, right, and so people teach us how not to get pregnant. But really it's not even that easy to get pregnant, right, and so that's something too that I learned from Dr Johnson is that it's not that easy. Like the moon and the sun got to be aligned the timing right, like sometimes it's like we just look up and it happens if we're not trying, but it's really not that easy.

Speaker 3:

And I think because of those the history of our bodies, of Black bodies, it puts us at a disadvantage because we shy away from those topics, because we are always taught not to get pregnant, especially women and girls, not to get pregnant. That's the one thing you don't do. You do not get pregnant. And when we start to, when we get older and we want to have children, we are put at a disadvantage because we have shied away from it for so long. White women go see their fertility specialist, like Whitney was saying in their like late twenties, mid to late twenties, like I just want to see what's up, right, but for black women it's more so dang. I've been trying and we not getting pregnant, so now what's up? And now we're trying to problem solve, opposed to being proactive, and I think that just speaks to the history of the way Black bodies have been shamed in this country.

Speaker 2:

I have a 13-year-old. How do I even introduce that conversation without it being cringy? How do we have that reproductive talk with our girls?

Speaker 4:

So for one, I think, is there's a good book I cannot remember the name of it, but it's actually written by a Black gynecologist and so she talks about the period and what that looks like like teaching teenage girls. But it basically talks about what's normalcy in periods, like what's regular, and I do think a lot of times we are taught that periods are supposed to be painful and this horrible thing and things around that. But that's also a high alert if a teen girl and even myself as an adult woman that suffers from very painful periods. I always thought that was the way it was supposed to be, but actually it could be something more. It could be fibroids, it could be endometriosis, and these things start in teenagers. So I think for more teaching, teaching our young girls that it's more than just the blood and the cramps, because there are so many things outside of just the blood and the cramps, also having the uncomfortable conversation.

Speaker 4:

I think sometimes of asking teen girls in our lives do they know what it? Do they know how do you get pregnant? And I know it's like why would I ask that? But I actually think in that because I think when me and Tiffany worked with teenage girls, a lot of times when they were in situations where they were violated, where somebody touched them inappropriately, where someone talked them into something or groomed them into something, it was because there was not any appropriate language around what pregnancy was, what it looked like, consent, things of those natures.

Speaker 4:

So making sure that we have, like you said, the appropriate language and also using books and tools and making sure that I think in that age range of like 13 to 18, that they are regularly seeing their gynecologist, because a lot of times we're like I don't want to send them, or like not having appropriate conversations around birth control, like if they're having painful periods, I think also getting them very accustomed to like having conversations with their medical provider, even if you're in the room, cause some of those conversations are uncomfortable to have with your teenage daughter. I'm sorry, like some of them, it can be uncomfortable for both, especially if you are a parent that has experienced trauma yourself any sexual trauma, any physical trauma. I always tell any of my clients some conversations are just going to be very uncomfortable. But I do say, if you do have a trusted medical provider like maybe having some of those conversations with your daughter and yourself there, because the medical provider may have resources or conversations that's easier. But I do think breaking that ice like sometimes we're so scared that it's going to introduce this bad thing of oh now, my teenager is not, but they see so much on a daily basis right on social media, like literally you can open Instagram.

Speaker 4:

It's somebody twerking whole butt out. There are music songs. There's things I hear in songs. Sometimes I'd be like what is that? What is that?

Speaker 2:

sometimes like but we're just no worse than the 90s y'all the stuff that we was listening to. Jump on this pony ride it like come on, y'all stop this stop this mess tiffany, you want to add?

Speaker 3:

something. Yeah, because I think Whitney made a really good point of like they're gonna get this information from somewhere, so you might as well make sure they're getting the correct information right. And I was just listening to a podcast where there was an OBGYN and she's called the period doctor on Instagram. It's a good resource to follow and she was saying that, which is something that I didn't know, is that your daughter those exams don't have to include the speculum. So if you're worried, if something that you're worried about is the speculum being inserted inside her vagina, right Like those, that does not have to happen, but it is a safe space to have a conversation, a trusted professional Right and generally somebody that looks like her, even though we know that's not the only thing that needs to be like prioritized Right, but you can do it Wait a minute.

Speaker 2:

What else need to be prioritized?

Speaker 3:

Somebody who's just culturally competent, because all skin folk and can folk, so we need to know that they are also prioritizing our health as black individuals, too, because we know that we get. We fall through through the gaps when it comes to healthcare as Black people. And so being able to yes, look like me and also do we share the same values, do we what I'm saying to you? Are you listening to me and what I value? Is that important and a priority to you? Because you are providing me care, you are my healthcare provider, so I need us to be on the same playing field, because you got information that I'm not, that I don't have, and I need you to be able to share this in a way that I can receive it and that it resonates with me and my child, and I know we spent a lot on this, but I thought that that would be a good space for us to really understand what y'all do and why.

Speaker 2:

the education of this is really good. So, whitney, my question is how can we better teach our girls about noticing their emotions and their bodies as they go through their cycles, like the mental health aspect? I ask this question because there is suicide on the rise, and I think it's on the rise is because we're not talking to that problem.

Speaker 4:

I'm glad you brought that up because when I was doing some research this morning, just in general, one of the main things they said that we think suicide does not happen to Black teens a lot of times, and it says right now, some of our highest rates are Black teenage girls between the ages of 10 and 14. It just goes under the radar a lot of times but I do think that's something big to understand that a lot of times we explain periods is that you're just moody or that you're just angry or irritable, but that carries on. So there's actually a diagnosis called PMDD, that for some women they have intense mood swings before their period. They have suicidal ideations. It really like disrupts their life and then that also makes it kind of like I would say, a factor for you to develop a maternal mental health concern if you're already struggling during your period, like if you're having a severe mood kind of thing going on during your cycle. I do think it's more important to teach young girls how to identify what those feelings are, even using like a period app, because I know my period app is very clear to say do you feel irritable, do you feel sad, do you feel those things? Because it may be a little bit difficult for them to be like oh well, I feel this, I feel that. But if you can catch it, then for them to be able to identify it and I think, also hold some grace for girls during that time, because a lot of time for Black women, when we show up with an attitude, people don't give us the same grace because they think we're angry. But irritability and attitudes is also sometimes depression. It's just masked very well and it doesn't give the same gratitude and warm and fuzziness and softness.

Speaker 4:

But I do think it takes having those conversations with your teenage daughter and even if you have a son and that's his sister, versus him being like she get on my nerves, to be like, hey, your sister cycle a week before her cycle. She may not be the most friendly as she may be feeling this and giving that communication, because men sometimes seem clueless about what we are feeling mentally when it comes to our cycles. So also giving that conversation to our young boys, but also giving that conversation to our daughters, because they are going to school and they are having to deal with school, they're dealing with us and what we got going on. So putting words to that, having a journal. There's like a cute little journal for teenage girls to kind of identify what feelings.

Speaker 4:

But if you're noticing it, they're like I feel suicidal or I feel literally like I want to punch everybody in the head. Look at those things, because it may be something a mental health therapist can help navigate that, because some women do. Really. It's not just the moodies, it can get very extreme. So I do think it's good to put words around what you're feeling and kind of track it. Having a period app or a journal or something.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for that. Like I'm going to look into. Like I'm sitting over here I'm soaking it all in because I do have a 13 year old daughter, so I'm very much in this stage of my life that I need to understand it and a lot of the things that again that you're saying to me. I was never educated on and I spent 22 years in the military. I have a master's degree. I got all this education, I have all this other stuff, but my health is something that wasn't a topic of discussion. You get what I mean. Like in the military it's a joke. Like, oh, take some Motrin forwards, you'll be okay. Like they think Motrin solves it all, and that's whether male or female. But as we get to the fertility and infertility conversation, can we speak to how you guys help couples navigate that? Can we talk a little bit about that, tiffany?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, sure, I wanted to kind of like weave in what you were, exactly what you were saying about how you weren't taught these things, and so we can see how frustrating parenting can become and how that trickles into how we parent and how we show up for our kids, because we are doing something that's completely different than what we were taught right, what we were exposed to right. We are trying to unlearn all of these unhealthy, unhelpful behaviors, mindsets, relearn something new and figure out how to then weave that into our parenting.

Speaker 2:

So we're showing up the best way we can for our kids and that can get very frustrating and defeating at times because there's no blueprint it makes you feel almost like inadequate, and I'm like sitting here right now getting a little bit emotional, not because like I don't know these things, it's just what you said. It's like man. It's like I need to go teach my daughter Like I want her to be more informed than what I am. You know what I mean and so it's like a little bit of the tears about to fall down my face. I'm like man. I'm feeling so emotional right now having this conversation because of that.

Speaker 3:

Right, and I think that's a good segue into what we do. Because moms and I think that's a good segue into what we do because moms, black women show up to our sessions saying I feel inadequate, I feel ill-equipped to be able to do this parenting thing, I am failing, I am not a good mother. And then even when we weave into you know, for infertility and loss or being pregnant after a miscarriage, all these things, and these women show up with this heightened level of anxiety because it's like I don't know, I feel lost, right, and this is so hard for me, but I feel guilty about it being hard because I wanted these kids or this baby so bad, and now I got it and I'm struggling. And what Whitney and I strive to do in our practice is to have a space, a safe emotional space, where you can say all of that. You can say all of that and us not judge you and tell you that you're a bad mother, right, the fact that you are sitting in this chair, that you are having this conversation with us, feeling bad about how you feel, is the indicator that you probably are a good mother because you actually care about how you feel and how you're impacting your children. So we see women, for reasons just like that, women who are struggling to become pregnant. They've been trying and there's this emotional toll of why isn't this happening for me, right, there's this grief of this. Is what I expected it to be like, right? Remember we were talking about the Cosby show and like how it puts this like false perception of what things are supposed to look like, and so when we get our information from these places that are not really a true reflection of reality, we feel like something that we're doing is wrong, and so what Whitney and I do is just hold a space, kind of like unweave those tangled webs of untruths, and help us, like dig deeper and identify.

Speaker 3:

What does parenting look like for you in this season? And that change that can change. What does navigating this loss look like for you in this season? And that can change. It's OK for you to feel sad. I feel like this is a situation where you should feel sad. So let's talk about it. Let me affirm that you feel sad and it's okay that you feel sad. So now we can work through that, right, so we can find the tools to be able to cope with this sadness, cope with this irritability, cope with this anger, all of the things, and that's what we do in our realm of working with women parenting couples in general.

Speaker 3:

That's an added layer into this mix, because a lot of times, the non-birthing partner feels slighted because this baby done, came and stole the show and everything is about the baby, and now they're not getting the love and care that they're used to getting.

Speaker 3:

So a lot of times, with our couples, we're talking about how do we prioritize our relationship, how do we pour back in to one another and how do we show compassion for the fact that she is having a hard time managing her roles, right, and then? So then, how can you support her? We talk a lot about effective communication. What does it look like to be transparent about the way you both are feeling, because you both matter? Yes, she's the one who birthed this baby and her body went through the physical thing. That's something worth being said, and also, you're impacted by that too, and so we try to get them to come together to see that, to see that they're playing on the same team and that it's them against the problem and not them against each other, right, and so that's how we hold a space for the people that we work with and I'm probably missing some stuff.

Speaker 4:

So I'm like tag with me, so just to talk a little bit. I know you asked about laws.

Speaker 2:

I was telling y'all how it was. Like right after Mother's Day, I walk into the hospital room and it's like, oh, we're going to go hear the heartbeat and we have these expectations that things are just going to fall in place and I'm like the, you know, the husband. You know, we're like the couple of century. We're walking in, just as cute, and we leave out of there and he's in tears. I'm in tears and a lot of men feel like they have to suck it up because they have to be the man you know, but no one ever speaks to that.

Speaker 4:

I agree and I think one thing I've noticed since being in this work our medical care system is not set up for miscarriage and loss. It is terrible when it comes to how people are told. I've had fathers when I did a couple of sessions where they were like Whitney, nobody even acted like I was there, like they told my wife or my partner and left me sitting in the lobby. So you know, like I don't even know how to console my partner because I don't even know what happened, because, you know, no one even came out to me as the dad. I think a lot of the fathers and partners I've worked with they experience a residual type of grief surrounded by miscarriage and loss of infertility. So I think initially they're trying to fulfill this role, but it hits them a year later or it hits them a few months later and I have to remind my clients, especially my moms, that it may feel like he's not where you're at because you all have been working from a different perspective. It would hit you very hard initially and he was trying to stay strong. So I do have to acknowledge that grief moves in different places. So a lot of couples do feel like well, why aren't you ready to have another baby right now, and one partner is feeling like I am terrified and the other one is feeling like I'm ready to go.

Speaker 4:

So I do think a lot of dads and partners, whether you know, feel that more residual of like being on the outside of it or being right there in it and not really knowing where to place those feelings or how to talk about them, because sometimes it's very hard to talk to your partner about what we just experienced and what we just went through. What do I say? How can I? I'm feeling it, you're feeling it. We feel distant, we feel cold. Even your sense of intimacy is kind of broken in that sense as a dad, when you go back to work, nobody's checking on you to be like, oh, heard about the laws.

Speaker 4:

They're just not appropriate language sometimes around how we even hold space for the other partner, but the other partner is also kind of like suffering in silence.

Speaker 4:

So one of the things I really like to do with couples is to see how they both are experiencing it, because some couples do become conflicted because they're in two different kind of spaces of how the grief is hitting for them, how they're experiencing it, and things that they're being told by society in the outside world and there's not often there, I don't know but maybe one or two spaces that even provide the other partner with a space to talk about what loss looks like for them and what it feels like, because there are a lot of dads that also deal with infertility. We don't talk about the other end of dads and so that's a whole nother space to get into. But I do think for a lot of men it is this residual kind of grief and loss where it hits them a little bit later because of the different roles expected to with men, to kind of be that strong person, but it hits them a little bit later and that can make couples sometimes feel like they're on opposite playing ends.

Speaker 2:

Wow, like I felt all of that. That hit me to my core. Like I said, we've experienced quite a few losses, a few being three, you know, one being a baby. I lost a twin at like week 34, you know, and I've had a couple of miscarriages as well. Right, and are you down? Can you fit back in your uniform? That's their focus. Not even if you are okay, and so thank you for that. I know I've had y'all on here for a while, but this is going to be my last question. We're going to wrap it up and I want, as we end, I really want you guys to tell them how can they follow you here. So be thinking about that, and if they need to really just talk with you, get in community with you, how can they do that? But before we get into that, here's my last question.

Speaker 2:

I like to ask this and Whitney, don't think just because you don't have kids you can't answer it. Because you can't. What is one lesson that your mom never taught you that you had to learn on your own?

Speaker 3:

That it is okay for me to not want to be around my kids 24-7, and that it is okay for me to prioritize myself and my needs before I get everybody else straight. That's something that she did not teach me, that I had to learn.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because a lot of times it was the complete opposite. Right, it was like you got to take care of the kids and they got to eat, and they got to do this and you almost seen them running themselves ragged, but no one ever came back and said girl, it's OK to take a breath. Oh, that's so good. That's so good. What about?

Speaker 4:

you, libby, I think not always having to show up strong, I think.

Speaker 4:

For my mom, her experience through her own life is she had no choice to always show up strong and to go to work and to always be on go, and so one of the things that I even talk to my mom now is about understanding that not being productive is just as powerful as being productive.

Speaker 4:

So understanding the importance in motherhood of slowing down and resting, because as Black women, we experience something called weathering and we are tiring our bodies out and we often don't see ourselves rest until we are retired and old and suffering from all these health conditions. Suffering from all these health conditions. So I do think one of the things that my mom didn't teach me because she wasn't afforded the same privilege is the importance of not having to always show up strong, showing vulnerability and understanding that you don't always have to get up and be busy, especially raising kids, showing kids that you don't always have to be busy and don't go, and allowing children to see you rest. I know so many times I didn't see my mom rest Like I think about that. Now I see her rest now that I'm grown, but as a child I don't know how often I saw her literally take that time for herself and rest as a child and I thought motherhood was you won't go 24, it's. It doesn't have to look like that.

Speaker 2:

That's so good, that's real good, because I'm going to take a nap If y'all, if we're going to do anything. I'm going to take a nap, Cause if I'm tired, I'm tired. But also I hear prioritizing your self care and that's like one of the things I guess, because I never was taught that, Like that's something that I'm not only teaching the girls but the boys as well.

Speaker 4:

So I think mental self-care is important too. We always I think me and Tiffany preached this notion of like not just that physical self-care, but mental self-care, like taking five minutes out of your day to pay attention to your breathing, making sure you're patient with yourself throughout the day, making sure how you speak to yourself. I always have to be careful of that because you know, we are always being very nice to our kids and speaking life into them and making sure they have good self-esteem. But a lot of the women I work with, and even myself I, don't show myself that same grace. And being a mom don't mean you got to show up scattered and toe up and not take care of yourself, girl that's why I do those mirror truths Like the mirror truths that like was on my Instagram.

Speaker 2:

Those really be moments, that what I have to tell myself in those moments. So it'd be my mirror truths. But I think we all have our own personal mirror truths as well. Y'all y'all have been phenomenal. I thought this was going to be hard navigating this whole. You know, duo, but we we did this y'all. Oh, this is such a good conversation and it feels so much like girl talk.

Speaker 2:

Like I could have went on and on and on, thinking to myself like, oh, my gosh, oh, and I love that and I value your time. But goodness, thank you, thank you, thank you for being my guest. Tell them where they can keep up with you, where they can find you, and we'll make sure to put all that information also in the show notes. Go ahead.

Speaker 3:

Okay, so you can find us on Instagram at raisingresilience. That is where we are most active. We also have a Twitter page, Raising Res, and then Facebook, Raising Resilience as well. We can from Instagram, like you can, get a link to our website. How to get in contact with us? If you need services, or your sister, baby, daddy, cousin needs services, fill out a referral form, whatever you can. Instagram is really the hub to find all of our things when we have upcoming workshops, all of that is there.

Speaker 2:

You got anything to add? Whitney, we got a book coming out. Promise to put me on your press run. Please come back. I would love to have you back so we can talk about the book. Get the book. I would love to purchase the book any way that we can support that would be awesome and phenomenal. Y'all. That has been another episode of Martini Mamas. Remember, it's all about the poor, both figuratively and literally. Don't forget to pour into yourself, because if you don't, no one else will. Well, that is the end of today's show. I hope you enjoyed it. If we're not connected on Instagram, which is my favorite place to hang out, be sure to stop by and say hi at Martini Mamas podcast. Also, if you haven't done so, please follow, rate and review us. Higher ratings and higher reviews mean more dope moms can find us and I keep bringing you fresh mom content that matters until next Thursday. Be blessed.